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Is the July 9 letter Prabhupada’s final order on initiations in ISKCON?
Historical Perspective
as I recall
Originally the GBC, HH Tamal Krsna Goswami instructed HH Giridhari Swami to research what was the “ritvik” issue coming up in our Iskcon Society, that was being debated through Vedic Village Review and give a paper for the GBC to consider on the matter. HH Giridhari Swami did the research and presented this paper in its original form to the GBC, long before Iskcon Bangalore went ritvik .
There was no title “Final Order” at that time. Much later Krishnakanth Desai made comments and titled arbitraily, this paper “Final Letter”. This title was never unanimously agreed upon by ritvikvadis. Nor were all the comments and siddhantas given therein by Krishnakant agreed by all followers of ritvikvadi. The title Final Order and comments are not a consensus but solely attributed to Krishnakant.
That stated, is not to say that there is any refutation that the July 9th letter was Srila Prabhupada’s last letter on initiation in Iskcon issued to His whole Society. By the July 9th letter Srila Prabhupada is addressing in writing the May 28, 1977 conversation about His appointing Officiating Acharyas to give 1st and 2nd initiation in the future when He is no longer with us.
In fact the followers of Iskcon Bangalore are not united with Krsnakanth and do not promote the Final Order in its entirity as it is. The propagation and dissemination of the “Final Order”, is done by Back to Prabhupada & Krishnakhanta
The same stated above holds true with different ritvik camps. Krsnakanth is basically ” Back to Prabhupada” and has his own following and forum .
Your servant
Tattvadarshandasa
Historical Perspective
as I recall
Originally the GBC, HH Tamal Krsna Goswami instructed HH Giridhari Swami to research what was the “ritvik” issue coming up in our Iskcon Society, that was being debated through Vedic Village Review and give a paper for the GBC to consider on the matter. HH Giridhari Swami did the research and presented this paper in its original form to the GBC, long before Iskcon Bangalore went ritvik .
There was no title “Final Order” at that time. Much later Krishnakanth Desai made comments and titled arbitraily, this paper “Final Letter”. This title was never unanimously agreed upon by ritvikvadis. Nor were all the comments and siddhantas given therein by Krishnakant agreed by all followers of ritvikvadi. The title Final Order and comments are not a consensus but solely attributed to Krishnakant.
That stated, is not to say that there is any refutation that the July 9th letter was Srila Prabhupada’s last letter on initiation in Iskcon issued to His whole Society. By the July 9th letter Srila Prabhupada is addressing in writing the May 28, 1977 conversation about His appointing Officiating Acharyas to give 1st and 2nd initiation in the future when He is no longer with us.
In fact the followers of Iskcon Bangalore are not united with Krsnakanth and do not promote the Final Order in its entirity as it is. The propagation and dissemination of the “Final Order”, is done by Back to Prabhupada & Krishnakhanta
The same stated above holds true with different ritvik camps. Krsnakanth is basically ” Back to Prabhupada” and has his own following and forum .
Your servant
Tattvadarshandasa
9 July 77 was a temporary order till recovery , read Prabhupada’s own words. (18 Oct 1977, Room Conversation: I stop for the time being. This initiation. I have deputed my disciple and if by Krishna’s grace I recover from this condition, then I shall begin again.)
He deputed his disciples till his health recovery, it was not post dissapearance.
Hare Krishna
October 18th conversation – Everything SP spoke of in regards to JPS and the others performing initiations is what he Had Already in the Past Deputed them to do via the July 9th letter. The Rtvik system given in that letter is that once implemented the temple presidents would be sending their recommendations to the nearest rtvik, – no longer was SP to be directly phyically involved. But on Oct 18th the GBC were still invoking SP – asking him what was to be done regarding this Bengali man who wanted to be initiated by SP. SP is still being pressed to decided who should do what, where, etc. IF the Rtvik system has already been implemented then all of this would have been handled bia that system and SP would not have been bothered and pressed to deal with such details. At no time in that conversation was the topic of Giving of Actual Diksha raised by SP – so when he said he now stopping THIS initiation, the ONLY thing THIS can refer to is that aspect of the initiations that SP had been speaking of, the Rtvik aspects that he Had Already in the Past DeputED those men to do, which was the Rtvik aspects. The word “THIS” cannot be pointing to something totally outside of that conversation – the giving of actual Diksha by SP was never raised, so the word THIS can be referring to the Rtvk aspects.
The GBC’s argument that via the July 9th letter SP had already STOPPED performing those aspects is totally erroneous – the very fact that the GBC men who approaching SP and involving him and asking him what to do about this man’s initiation PROVES that they had not yet Implemented that Rtvik system, for if they had, then all of this would have been handled by that system and SP would not have been approached and bothered by all this.
So, when SP said that he is stopping for the time being – he was stopping from being engaged in the Rtvik aspects only, not the giving of actual diksha. He is asking them, NOW Implement the Rtvik system, stop pressing me with such details, implement the system I already deputed you to do, and IF – by Krsna’s grace – SP’s health should recover, then he is saying he could again take up those Rtvik aspects, and he could again be approached for such details.
But, that as an “IF” If he recovers, otherwise, the Rtvik system was to now be implemented as it had not yet been fully impletemented as of 18th Oct, because if it had been, then if this man asked a GBC to be SP’s disciple, the GBC would refer to his temple president, the GBC was not to determine (SP wrote this, GBC men are NOT to determine if someone met the criteria for initiation, SP gave that duty to the temple presidents ONLY), and if the temple president decides he is qualified, then he is to send a letter of recommendation to the nearest Rtvik, they will accept on SP’s behalf – chant on the beads and give the name, then they or the temple president perform the initiation ceremony. And SP would not have been pressed or bothered at all. So, obviously Oct 18th is NOT when SP ordered the END of the Rtvik system – as the GBC wrongly claim, just the opposite, it was on this day that SP is instructing them, now STOP approaching me now you must START implementing the Rtvik system, that I Had Already Deputed you to do.
𝐈 𝐡𝐚𝐯𝐞 𝐝𝐞𝐩𝐮𝐭𝐞𝐝 is a present perfect tense used to describe
𝐚𝐧 𝐚𝐜𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧 𝐭𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐛𝐞𝐠𝐚𝐧 𝐢𝐧 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐩𝐚𝐬𝐭 (despite being a present tense).
T𝐡𝐞 𝐚𝐜𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧 𝐛𝐞𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐝𝐞𝐬𝐜𝐫𝐢𝐛𝐞𝐝 𝐢𝐬 𝐬𝐭𝐢𝐥𝐥 𝐜𝐨𝐧𝐭𝐢𝐧𝐮𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐢𝐧𝐭𝐨 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐩𝐫𝐞𝐬𝐞𝐧𝐭.
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The present perfect tense is “𝐈 𝐡𝐚𝐯𝐞 𝐝𝐞𝐩𝐮𝐭𝐞𝐝”.
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Therefore, Srila Prabhupada describes an action that began in the past (July 9, 1977), three months before this conversation (Vrndavana, October 18, 1977), and that continues in that present tense in which Srila Prabhupada speaks about the deputies.
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Therefore, Srila Prabhupada, by “𝐈 𝐡𝐚𝐯𝐞 𝐝𝐞𝐩𝐮𝐭𝐞𝐝” refers to the fact that he had previously appointed deputies whose function is currently in effect and therefore they must now exercise the function that was previously given to them,”𝐭𝐨 𝐚𝐜𝐭 𝐚𝐬 “𝐫𝐢𝐭𝐯𝐢𝐤- 𝐫𝐞𝐩𝐫𝐞𝐬𝐞𝐧𝐭𝐚𝐭𝐢𝐯𝐞 𝐨𝐟 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐚𝐜𝐚𝐫𝐲𝐚, 𝐟𝐨𝐫 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐩𝐮𝐫𝐩𝐨𝐬𝐞 𝐨𝐟 𝐩𝐞𝐫𝐟𝐨𝐫𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐢𝐧𝐢𝐭𝐢𝐚𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧𝐬, 𝐛𝐨𝐭𝐡 𝐟𝐢𝐫𝐬𝐭 𝐢𝐧𝐢𝐭𝐢𝐚𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐬𝐞𝐜𝐨𝐧𝐝 𝐢𝐧𝐢𝐭𝐢𝐚𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧.”
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Not only does Srila Prabhupada say twice, “𝐈 𝐡𝐚𝐯𝐞 𝐝𝐞𝐩𝐮𝐭𝐞𝐝,”a present perfect tense, which would be sufficient, meaning an act performed in the past and continuing in the present, but once again, clarifying its meaning, he uses the word “𝐚𝐥𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐝𝐲,” “𝐈 𝐡𝐚𝐯𝐞 𝐚𝐥𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐝𝐲 𝐝𝐞𝐩𝐮𝐭𝐞𝐝.”
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In this particular case of this October 18, 1977, conversation, “𝐚𝐥𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐝𝐲” means prior to this date, previously, prior to a specified present (October 18, 1977).
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Therefore, Srila Prabhupada reinforces the meaning of “𝐈 𝐡𝐚𝐯𝐞 𝐝𝐞𝐩𝐮𝐭𝐞𝐝” and says “𝐚𝐥𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐝𝐲” what it means again “in the past”, prior to that October 18, 1977 conversation.
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Therefore, in no way does this conversation mean that “Srila Prabhupada announced that he is not initiating any more disciples and that his deputies “on the list” can start by initiating Mr. Sukumal Roy Chauduri.”
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Srila Prabhupada continued to initiate disciples through his deputies, who are officiating the initiation ceremonies, as they were formally appointed on July 9, 1977.
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Srila Prabhupada says that due to his illness, it is physically impossible for him to perform this ceremony, and therefore the deputies—this is the meaning of deputy—must perform their duties on his behalf.
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Srila Prabhupada remains the spiritual master of Mr. Sukumal Roy Chauduri and of subsequent initiations performed on his behalf by his deputies.
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“I have deputed”, the appointment of deputies was made previously, July 9, three months ago, “𝐚𝐥𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐝𝐲”, with the specific function of:
“𝐭𝐨 𝐚𝐜𝐭 𝐚𝐬 “𝐫𝐢𝐭𝐯𝐢𝐤- 𝐫𝐞𝐩𝐫𝐞𝐬𝐞𝐧𝐭𝐚𝐭𝐢𝐯𝐞 𝐨𝐟 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐚𝐜𝐚𝐫𝐲𝐚, 𝐟𝐨𝐫 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐩𝐮𝐫𝐩𝐨𝐬𝐞 𝐨𝐟 𝐩𝐞𝐫𝐟𝐨𝐫𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐢𝐧𝐢𝐭𝐢𝐚𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧𝐬, 𝐛𝐨𝐭𝐡 𝐟𝐢𝐫𝐬𝐭 𝐢𝐧𝐢𝐭𝐢𝐚𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐬𝐞𝐜𝐨𝐧𝐝 𝐢𝐧𝐢𝐭𝐢𝐚𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧. 𝐇𝐢𝐬 𝐃𝐢𝐯𝐢𝐧𝐞 𝐆𝐫𝐚𝐜𝐞 𝐡𝐚𝐬 𝐬𝐨 𝐟𝐚𝐫 𝐠𝐢𝐯𝐞𝐧 𝐚 𝐥𝐢𝐬𝐭 𝐨𝐟 𝐞𝐥𝐞𝐯𝐞𝐧 𝐝𝐢𝐬𝐜𝐢𝐩𝐥𝐞𝐬 𝐰𝐡𝐨 𝐰𝐢𝐥𝐥 𝐚𝐜𝐭 𝐢𝐧 𝐭𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐜𝐚𝐩𝐚𝐜𝐢𝐭𝐲…
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𝐓𝐡𝐞 𝐧𝐞𝐰𝐥𝐲 𝐢𝐧𝐢𝐭𝐢𝐚𝐭𝐞𝐝 𝐝𝐞𝐯𝐨𝐭𝐞𝐞𝐬 𝐚𝐫𝐞 𝐝𝐢𝐬𝐜𝐢𝐩𝐥𝐞𝐬 𝐨𝐟 𝐇𝐢𝐬 𝐃𝐢𝐯𝐢𝐧𝐞 𝐆𝐫𝐚𝐜𝐞 𝐀.𝐂. 𝐁𝐡𝐚𝐤𝐭𝐢𝐯𝐞𝐝𝐚𝐧𝐭𝐚 𝐒𝐰𝐚𝐦𝐢 𝐏𝐫𝐚𝐛𝐡𝐮𝐩𝐚𝐝, 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐚𝐛𝐨𝐯𝐞 𝐞𝐥𝐞𝐯𝐞𝐧 𝐬𝐞𝐧𝐢𝐨𝐫 𝐝𝐞𝐯𝐨𝐭𝐞𝐞𝐬 𝐚𝐜𝐭𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐚𝐬 𝐇𝐢𝐬 𝐫𝐞𝐩𝐫𝐞𝐬𝐞𝐧𝐭𝐚𝐭𝐢𝐯𝐞. “